Royce: ‘It’s hard to compare’ eras; can fighters today fight in 1993?

1995, Ken Shamrock vs Royce Gracie | Photo by Evan Hurd/Sygma/Sygma via Getty Images

Royce Gracie spoke with BloodyElbow.com ahead of Bellator 234 about everything but: Kazushi Sakuraba and catch-wrestling, Judo and Jiu-Jitsu on the mat, the cage and out on the streets, on his favorite fighters and on why he doesn’t watch ADCC

“What Situation?” Royce Gracie asks when asked about the situation here, in Israel. In the lobby of the Sheraton Tel-Aviv beach hotel, where the top Bellator fighters and brass are stay for Bellator 234, he says it doesn’t bother him and he looks the part; all smiles, all calm. Except for the by now mechanic fist pose; taking pictures with all on-comers since 1993. Royce Gracie is pretty much an Israeli of honor by now – the last time UFC 1, 2 & 4 winner tried to count, it was his 15^th visit in the country.

”I’m used to that, I’m with you guys,” he tells the Israeli reporter talking with him.” I come here a lot – I give a lot of seminars, I have many black belts here, in Karmiel, Haifa, Tiberias, Jerusalem. Many schools”.

At the Bellator 234 ceremonial weigh-ins, meeting and greeting, Gracie says he wants a uniform, we can get him a gun and he will go. But we are women and men of peace, and it is unarmed violence we are here for.

When I interviewed you two years back, you said you didn’t like where Jiu-Jitsu is currently at. You mentioned too many rules, and also a that you feel that it drifted away from self defense.

Look at Taekwondo for answers. Martial arts in general were not made for a tournament, for points system. Martial arts were made to defend yourself in the street fight situation, not to score points. you’re not meant to tag the person, touch the person, score the point. You’re meant to hit, knock the guy out, make a hole to your chest. Now all martial arts are doing this: Taekwondo, Karate – scoring a point. Same thing Jiu-Jitsu, it wasn’t meant for point system. And it’s be been like this for long time already – that a lot of people train for scoring points. I don’t agree with that. Jiu-Jitsu was meant for self-defense.

And whose Jiu-Jitsu you do like today, and how they apply it in the cage?

I like Damian Maia. In a fight he uses Jiu-Jitsu, to fight. You see. Fabricio Werdum. Yeah, that’s what’s Jiu-Jitsu is for, to use in a true fight, not to score points. People rely too much on scoring points today.

What you think about the latest ADCC?

Didn’t watch. I don’t watch it. Not that I don’t it. I don’t like the points system. It’s not that I don’t like the art. I love the art.

Photo by Sankei via Getty Images

A lot of time since the big fights of the nineties, where it was no time-limit is and no gloves and no-holds-barred…

And no weight division. But I can’t say those guys were tougher than the guys today. The guys today are very tough. But it’s different. Back then there’s no time limit, no weight division, no gloves. Different rules.

Who’s the best fighter you’ve fought back then? Sakuraba?

All of them. Ken Shamrock, Sakuraba, Dan Severn. And they’re all big, they’re all huge. I’m the smallest one, man. Kimo, they’re all tough. They’re all good at their style. I respect all of them. Anybody that steps in the cage.

Catch-wrestling. As good as Jiu-Jitsu?

Don’t know about catch-wrestling.

You fought with catch-wrestlers many times – Sakuraba.

Ok. I thought he was wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu.

In your view, you don’t think it’s catch-wrestling?

Don’t know. Don’t care about catch-wrestling. I only care about Jiu-Jitsu.

Bellator MMA (PR)

You famously claimed some years ago that to succeed in modern MMA, even, one can rely only on Jiu-Jitsu. Do you still feel this way?

Oh yeah. Jiu-Jitsu is the bond or styles all between all the other styles. Take Jiu-Jitsu out, a boxer is just a boxer, a kickboxer is just a kickboxer. Take Jiu-Jitsu out of the wrestling – what is he going to do, take the person down and? there’s no finishing holds, there’s no striking. So the Jiu-Jitsu is the one that bonds all the styles together.

Is there a big difference between what a Japanese did in the forties and fifties on the ground, and the modern Jiu-Jitsu of these days?

Yes.

Can you elaborate a little? Like, as to the difference?

Is there a difference between the car, the Ford, from 1940s, and the Ford of today? Yes. Technology changed; techniques change. People change. The training changes, the food changes. Everything, The Kimura, everything. The work, the gyms changed.

Photo by Evan Hurd/Sygma/Sygma via Getty Images

The question is about the Japanese guys, what they call Kosen Judo guys, Tsunatane Oda.

The Jiu-Jitsu that my father learned, or the stand up Jiu-Jitsu?

The complete Judo. The Judo before they said: This is stand up, and this is the ground.

Yes, the complete Jiu-Jitsu. The armlock is an armlock, a choke is a choke. How you set it up – is different. Everybody have their personal style.

But those guys were legit? Tsunatane Oda.

Of course. You’re asking me – will Muhammad Ali be able to box today against the champion.

Yes, he will.

Will he win?

I don’t know.

Look at the size of the heavyweights. they’re not 200 pounds, 220 pounds anymore. You see, they’re much bigger. The technology is better, they train better. Now the question is would they be able to fight when Muhammad Ali, back in that time, training using the technology that they had, the food of the had, see. So everything improves today, but a right hand is still a right hand, a jab is still jab, you understand?

If a fighter from 1993 could fight today? Could the fighter today fight in 1993? You understand? So it’s hard to compare. My brother used to say – ‘If the crow could sing, he would have been in a golden cage, but since he doesn’t sing, he eats trash from the streets’.

It is 2019, not 1993 anymore, and everybody knows and respects the name Gracie. So I’m asking if the original Judo guys, the guys who competed in tournaments under Kosen rules, Oda and his guys, how good were they, and how similar was it to modern Jiu-Jitsu?

I don’t know, because I didn’t train with them. I learned from my father, not from them. I saw videos. They were good, of course, the level. I only saw videos, so I don’t know. I respect what came before. What came before you, it built you. But I learned Jiu-Jitsu from my father.

Thank you very much, Mr. Royce Gracie, as always an honor.