Widely known for his history of choking his opponents into submission, in the future, TJ O’Brien will be looking to prove to everyone that he isn’t a one-dimensional mixed martial artist—one strike at a time.
Since making his professional debut in April of 2007, O’Brien has racked up 16 submission victories in 20 appearances—including 11 wins by way of his renowned triangle choke.
A contestant on ‘The Ultimate Fighter: Team St. Pierre vs. Team Koscheck’, O’Brien fell short in his first and only bout of the contest—losing to Marc Stevens in just 13 seconds—before exiting the tournament.
Before making his return to the Octagon at UFC 123—a second round loss at the hands of Paul Kelly—O’Brien racked up six consecutive victories from mid 2009 to late 2010.
Currently, O’Brien is slated to take on Cole Miller at UFC on Versus 5 in mid August in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
I recently had the opportunity to speak with TJ O’Brien about, among other topics, his first impressions of the sport, fighting in the UFC, and, for the grapplers out there, applying the perfect triangle choke.
Were you involved in any martial arts growing up?
No. I actually played almost every other sport besides martial arts. I had a punching bag that my parents got me, but I never did any kind of structured-martial arts until I was 19 or so.
What inspired that?
Growing up, we’d have boxing matches at my parents’ house and we’d watch the UFCs and we were doing the moves. I thought, “Well, I’m going to go find somebody that can teach me properly.” I started doing Jiu-Jitsu at the YMCA and found a couple other gyms, kind of jumped around, and that’s how I got started.
What were your first impressions of the sport?
I thought it was great. I thought it was a great opportunity to prove that you were the toughest person; it wasn’t necessary about fighting. Nobody likes to get punched in the head—nobody that I know anyway—so it wasn’t just about the fighting. Like I said, I’ve played almost every sport that there is and I enjoy working out. It gave me an opportunity to do that and get paid—it worked out well.
Did you think, in the beginning, that this was something you could make a career out of?
Yeah—I did, actually. When I first saw it, I was like, “Man, I’ll be a champion in two years.” And you start doing it and you realize there is a lot more to it than you think. I think everybody has that idea, “Nobody will beat me; I’ll be the champ in a few years and make all that money,” when they started in the sport, not realizing that it takes five years just to get a career going [laughs].
When did you realize that it would be more difficult than you first thought?
I had lost a fight as an amateur and before that was thinking I’d just go undefeated until I’m a champion. Once I lost that one fight, I realized that it wasn’t going to be as easy as I thought and it’s definitely not [laughs].
How did you feel after your first loss?
I was disappointed. I was 18 or 19 at the time and you, kind of, have this “super hero” feeling; you beat everybody up and then you lose and you can’t even believe that you’re human. It’s a weird feeling.
Did you, kind of, question what you were doing after your first loss?
Yeah, I did. Like I said, I thought it would be easy; I’d be a champ and we’d be done. I’ve said every fight until recently, “If I lose this fight, I’m done.” I don’t know if that’s what pushes me in the gym; if you lose your next fight, you’re done—kind of thing. Even after my first loss, it was, “Well, if I lose two fights, I’ll never make the UFC. If I lose three fights, I’ll definitely never make the UFC. After your fourth loss, there’s no way that they’ll ever sign me.” Like I said, though, I think that’s kind of what pushes me.
Is that still in the back of your mind; another loss and you’d reconsider what you’re doing?
No, not at this point. I feel like I’ve gotten over that hurdle. People lose—especially now in MMA. There are so many factors and anyone can lose a fight on any given day. You realize that, although, you might lose a fight, it’s not necessarily that he was the better fighter or he worked harder—things just happen. At the same time, I just love doing it. If I wasn’t doing this, I don’t know what I’d want to do—physically. It’s a perfect fit for me; if I don’t work out, I don’t feel right. I’m going to do it regardless; it doesn’t have to be my career.
Have you ever thought about where you might be had you not taken up martial arts?
It sounds, probably, typical, but there was a lot of trouble going on. Not criminal, but a lot of drinking, a lot of partying. You can’t go out and party every weekend when your weekend is your hardest time of the week—training-wise. When I was on the local circuit, I was fighting once a month or every other month—you can’t go out drinking all the time. I think a lot of fighters have changed how they approach their personal lives.
Was it difficult to give up that lifestyle?
Not really. When you love something that much, you’re willing to sacrifice a lot to do it … I’ve got a girlfriend, too. Between MMA and my girlfriend, I’ve stayed out of trouble.
Is that ever too much?
[Laughs] I’m still working fulltime, too. With the status of the UFC these days, people get released all the time, so you never know where your next pay-cheque is going to come from. I work fulltime, so the schedule gets pretty tight—but I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Where do you work?
I work at CBE; it’s a collection agency.
Do you like doing that?
I actually do. The department that I’m in handles a lot of city accounts, and it allows me to do a lot of negotiating and I like doing that. Obviously, I’d rather be in the gym—hopefully someday I can do that—but I want to have a back-up plan.
Does anyone ever give you any trouble when you’re trying to collect?
[Laughs] Yeah. I get cussed at and stuff like that, but that doesn’t bug me. They call me all kinds of names—it’s funny—but it rarely happens. When it does happen, it’s usually from someone I don’t care about. I don’t care what their opinions of me are, anyway.
[Laughs] Do they realize they’re talking to ‘The King of the Triangle Choke’?
[Laughs] No, but do you know how bad I want to tell them sometimes? I give them my full name, but these probably aren’t the guys that are watching fights. Nobody has recognized me yet—I think it’s going to be a while until someone says, “Oh, are you that guy?”
What inspired you to try out for ‘The Ultimate Fighter’?
It’s obviously the quickest way to get in the UFC. I thought I was pretty much the perfect fit for it. I was pretty confident I was going to make the show; they usually take a tall guy for each season—one or two tall guys for the lightweight season—and I just thought I’d have a good chance at it. I thought I’d have a good chance at winning; with the triangle choke, I thought it would be a good way to win a tournament that way. I have won a tournament that way, but it was a four man tournament—that’s a good way to finish a fight quickly.
Was there any hesitation on your behalf to try out for the show?
No. As soon as they announced where they were going, I was like, “Damn—I’m there.” It didn’t take me 24 hours to book the ticket. I thought I was going to make the show; I was very confident I was going to make the show. When I showed up and saw all of the competition, I thought, “Maybe not.” I feel that I had a great chance to win that show; they gave me a matchup that I needed to get into the house, but I really let the spotlight get to me. I got tunnel-vision, I just wasn’t myself, and I got caught. It’s just what happens sometimes.
How disappointing was that for you?
[Laughs] it was probably the most disappointed I’ve been in my entire life. I went out there with the mindset that if I lost on ‘The Ultimate Fighter’ than I would retire—I had been fighting for four or five years professionally and didn’t have anything to show for it except a bunch of local belts and some good stories. They way it happened; I trained so hard and I didn’t get to show anything I had—it was like a horrible dream. I came back and was super-depressed. I got back in the gym, scheduled a fight, and just took it from there.
So there were no thoughts of retiring after you lost?
After the loss on ‘The Ultimate Fighter’, I thought I would never fight again.
What inspired you to get back at it?
I think my love of training sent me back. Also, I know how good I am and, I think, they know how good I am—that’s why they gave me a second opportunity. I had an opportunity to fight someone who was undefeated and smashing everyone—including one of my best friends—and I thought I’d go in there, fight him, and see what happens. I thought that I had to fight the best of the best if I was fighting in the UFC, so I went in there and fought him in his hometown and beat him in about a minute and a half, I think. I thought, “Well, I’m back,” so I scheduled another fight. After that, the UFC called me and said that I was fighting Paul Kelly.
Was there any hesitation on your behalf to sign that contract?
[Laughs] No—not at all. I couldn’t believe that they were giving me a second chance—I couldn’t ask for anything more, obviously. The UFC is where you want to be and I think any fighter in my position at the time would’ve taken the fight on five hours notice. There was no hesitation—none at all.
You were surprised when you got the call?
Yeah, absolutely. I was at my job and my manager—who owns the local promotion that got me started—got a text from my manager and he said for me to give him a call. I looked at him—and I had seen that Gabe Ruediger had dropped out of his fight—and said, “It’s the UFC, right?” And he said, “How’d you know?” but after I saw that Gabe Ruediger pulled out, I thought that I would be fighting Paul Kelly.
What does fighting in the UFC mean to you?
It means everything. Obviously it’s the place where everyone wants to be—financially. That’s everyone’s goal; everyone wants to be the best. To me, it means that all of my hard-work and all of the sacrifices that I have made have paid off.
How do you feel about your performance against Paul?
It’s the same thing; I’ve never been the kind of guy that folded under the pressure—and I’ve never been an unconfident guy. During the fight, though, I almost felt myself doubting myself; “You’re standing with Paul Kelly?” Everything was working, but in my mind I was getting my ass kicked—it didn’t seem like I was scoring at all. But when I saw the fight, I was scoring all kinds of points and if it could’ve been a very different outcome. I know that I belong with those guys, so I’m looking forward to the Cole Miller fight; I know this is where I belong and I plan on getting a ‘W’.
How are you feeling going into your bout against Cole?
I’m feeling great. When I had fought Paul Kelly, too, about three weeks earlier, I had dropped down to 150 to meet a catch-weight with the local champion. I’ve put on a bit of weight over the last couple months; focusing on getting stronger and now we’re trying to incorporate the technique with it. I think it’s a bad match-up for Cole Miller.
Do you feel that Cole is your biggest challenge to date?
Yeah, I’d definitely say that. At the same time, I’m definitely the best fighter that I’ve ever been, too.
What problems do you feel Cole poses to you?
I think, obviously, his Jiu-Jitsu. I think when a taller guy goes against a taller guy, you’ve got to adjust your game, because you’re not able to take advantage of your reach. I’m going to have to get used to that. On the ground, he’s always dangerous—I’ll look out for that. We’re working on something for everything that he’s good at—that’s the game-plan.
What do you think Cole’s game-plan is going to be this Saturday?
I think he’s pretty confident that he’s going to beat me wherever he wants to beat me. Technically, he’s going to be a better Jiu-Jitsu guy, a better stand-up guy, but I think, athletically, is where I’m going to be better than him. I’ve got some tricks up my sleeve. I feel that I’m a lot stronger—I’ll look to impose my will and fight him how I want to fight him.
Do you have prediction for how it’s going to end?
It’s going to be me rocking him and subbing him or rocking him and knocking him out.
What would a win over Cole mean to you?
It would be the high-light of my career, but a lot of fighters make the UFC—it’s not really your home until you get a win, I think. It’s like playing professional basketball and never starting a game. To be a legitimate top fighter in this world, I think you have to win in the UFC—you have to beat guys like Cole Miller. I’m stoked that I get the opportunity to accomplish both of those goals.
Do you feel that you belong in the UFC?
Yeah, absolutely.
Assuming you win on Saturday, where do you see yourself in the UFC’s lightweight division?
I think the lightweight division is the best in the UFC. I think the lightweight, welterweight, and featherweight divisions are the most popular weight-classes, so the competition is a lot stiffer. I think it’s going to take a lot more than a win over Cole Miller to get me on any type of projection. Obviously, if you beat a name like Cole Miller, they’ll look—but picking up a win in the UFC doesn’t mean much anymore; you’ve got to be able to get a good streak going.
Again, assuming you win—and I don’t want to put you on the spot—but what level of opponent would you like to test yourself against at this point?
[Laughs] Anything would be great. I think I can hang with anybody, so top-10, top-15—whatever—just whatever gets me closer to that championship is the best route.
What do you feel you can accomplish in this sport?
Whatever I put my mind to. With my physical attributes, the sky is the limit. I think the 55 weight-class is a good match for me, so I see myself being here for a while; I don’t see myself going back to 145 or moving up to 170 any time soon. Hopefully I can take control and become a top contender in the lightweight division.
What would you like to accomplish in this sport?
Championships. Not necessarily the championships, but I would like to prove that I’m one of the top guys, one of the toughest guys in the whole world. That was my goal when I started; to prove that I was the toughest, so I think that’s what I’d like to do.
Have you thought about how much longer you’d like to compete?
As long as my body will let me. I’m ‘6’2” and I’ve played a lot of sports already—that’s a lot of pressure on my joints—and I’m only 24 years old. As long as I can do it, I’m going to do it. Like I said, I like this more than anything, so as long as I can do it, I’m going to do it.
Is the physical element of the sport ever too much?
Once you get into your training camp, all fighters have to deal with injuries; every fighter has to deal with problems. That’s the sport and if you can’t do it, then it’s not for you—you’re not going to be the toughest guy in the world. A sore knee or sore elbows aren’t going to stop me from training—they’re definitely not going to stop me from doing what I want to do.
Have you thought about what you might like to do when you’re done fighting?
I’ll be happy with any job, as long as I’ve had the chance to live my dream. Obviously, you want to start a gym, you want to get paid for what you love, but at the same time, there are only so many people that can do that. I’ll be content with a good nine-to-five job, so I can live in the suburbs. Whichever way it happens, I’m just glad that I’ll get the chance to do it.
Is there anything that you’d like to say to your fans while you have this opportunity?
Thank you for all of your support. I know I disappointed a lot of people with my last fight, but thanks for sticking with me. I’m working on getting better and you’re going to see a different fighter this weekend. People always talk about my triangle or this or that, but I’m developing—I’ve been doing so much other stuff. I appreciate their support.
Do you remember your first triangle choke?
I actually do. I had seen somebody do it and it was probably within the first couple classes and my instructor showed us the triangle—I had only seen people do it on TV. This class had a lot of beginners—it wasn’t the best class. A wrestler tried stacking me up and I hit him with a triangle—not really knowing how to do it, just from seeing it on TV—and everyone said, “Wow! What was that? Where did that come from?” It fits me really well; people don’t realize how strong I am and between that and my long legs, the triangle choke makes people go to sleep pretty easily.
Is it just a coincidence that you have so many wins by the triangle or is it something that you’re always looking for?
It’s something I always work. Being here in Iowa—there are a lot of wrestlers around here—and that’s what they do; they put you on your back. I had to figure out a way to beat that, so I started working on this triangle choke. I’ve made my triangle choke really offensive; I really force it on people.
What’s the secret behind applying a nice, strong triangle choke?
I would probably say the angle. I’ve locked up triangles from every direction; sometimes people have said, “How the hell did he do that?” I’ve done triangles that I haven’t seen anyone else do. I’d have to say the key is the angle and how far across you can get the arm—if you can get that arm across then it’s over.
[Laughs] Is that your favourite way to end a fight?
[Laughs] No—I want to get the knockout! I’d like to score some knockouts—I haven’t been able to get any as a pro. Obviously, I’ve won enough fights by triangle; I know, at one time, I was tied for the second most triangles. That’s not a record I plan on chasing any time soon [laughs].
What would a knockout mean to you this weekend?
It would be the high-light of my career—probably the high-light of my life—to be able to show everyone that I’m not a one-dimensional guy. I want to get this knockout and make sure everyone knows that they have to worry about my hands, too.
Do you think people view you as one-dimensional?
Not so much around here—because a lot of people know me—but if you look at my record, you’ll say that I can’t do anything but the triangle. I knew that if I was someone else, I would probably say the same thing if they had the kind of record that I have. That’s not the case at all, though; I’ll choke you out from anywhere and I’ll probably knock you out from anywhere. I’m definitely not one-dimensional.
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