UFC 135: Mike Winkeljohn Talks Carlos Condit vs. GSP, Jon Jones & More with B/R

Most MMA trainers seem content to lurk in the shadows while their fighters get the attention, but few are so adept at slipping the spotlight as striking coach Mike Winkeljohn of Jackson-Winkeljohn MMA.His partner, Greg Jackson, widely regarded as one t…

Most MMA trainers seem content to lurk in the shadows while their fighters get the attention, but few are so adept at slipping the spotlight as striking coach Mike Winkeljohn of Jackson-Winkeljohn MMA.

His partner, Greg Jackson, widely regarded as one the premier cagefighting savants, gets credit for nearly everything that happens in their gym, even as Jackson tirelessly refers to Winkeljohn as his “mentor.”

That’s okay for the lanky, decorated kickboxer. The silent but deadly technician behind many of the UFC’s most exciting finishes is happy to play the glue behind the glitter.

But his carefree days of anonymity appear numbered.

“What’s important to me is guys winning fights,” Winkeljohn told Bleacher Report in an exclusive interview. “If I’m doing the interviews and all that stuff, I don’t get to spend as much time with the fighters.”

He speaks with a gravelly voice that sometimes breaks down into an extra-low, awestruck “yeah” when particular fighters of his are mentioned. Thanks to a freak accident at the gym a few years back, he has one glass eye, adding irony to his longtime nickname, “Wink.”

His good eye remains focused on the prize—and little else—but Winkeljohn’s cherished seclusion is in serious jeopardy.

Indeed, his agreement to this interview is an acknowledgement as such. With a bout agreement signed for a welterweight title fight between stablemates Carlos Condit and Georges St-Pierre, Winkeljohn knows he’s about to get some airtime.

The fight, at UFC 137 in Las Vegas, will be the maiden voyage of Greg Jackson’s new “protocols,” as he calls them, by which he will handle title fights between teammates that have become an inevitable result of the success of his and Winkeljohn’s gym. Per these protocols, Coach Jackson will recuse himself from either man’s preparations and refer questions of Condit vs. GSP to Winkeljohn.

This scenario could very well repeat in short order, depending on the outcome of the main event at UFC 135 in Denver this weekend, when Jon Jones defends his title against Quinton “Rampage” Jackson.

Winkeljohn is confident Jones is going to beat Rampage —wherever the fight might go. With this confidence comes the probability that his former student, Rashad Evans, will soon challenge Jones for the light heavyweight title.

“Rashad [Evans] is probably the most dangerous person out there for Jon Jones,” Winkeljohn stated. “Rashad’s got that explosiveness. We saw it with Sean Salmon and with Chuck. I think Rashad has the ability to knock anybody out when he gets his feet underneath him in the right place. He’s a fantastic wrestler too.”

That isn’t to say Winkeljohn thinks Jones wouldn’t be able to handle his former teammate:

“People have seen [Jon] throw long front kicks, they’ve seen him throw roundhouse kicks, they’ve seen him throw long punches, spinning elbows. But the difference now is that Jon’s throwing those strikes with much more intent, much more power,” said Winkeljohn. “Before they were distractions for his takedowns, now they’re just hurting everybody. He’s hurting everybody in the gym whenever he wants to.”

Should the Evans matchup be next for Jones, it would be the second time Coach Jackson bowed out of preparation for a teammate vs. teammate title scrap. Winkeljohn doesn’t share his partner’s need to stay neutral in these situations, though he understands Jackson’s point of view:

“It’s like your two sons fighting each other, what do you do? Greg cares about both guys, so he made the right move pulling out.”

But in the case of Condit vs. GSP, it turns out that Winkeljohn hasn’t done much work with GSP, which eliminates the potentially icky feeling of using intimate knowledge of the fighter against him. Winkeljohn has learned most of what he knows about GSP from tape and says they’re studying his habits closely. 

Condit is a local boy, born and raised in Albuquerque, and Winkeljohn says it’s been exciting watching the city rally behind him. Condit’s last three fights have been KO/TKO victories, and the final two finishes, says Winkeljohn—a left hook against Hardy and a flying knee against Dong Hyun Kim—were strikes and combinations they had specifically trained for.

Carlos Condit is disciplined and studious in the gym, according to Winkeljohn, and seems to possess that coveted “X-factor.”

“Carlos is just a fighter. He’ll just do it,” Winkeljohn said. “He’s that guy who digs deep and just does it. He believes in himself and that’s going to play out. If Georges plays that safe game, which I think he might a little bit, he’s going to find himself in a bad situation against Carlos.

“Don’t get me wrong, Georges is the best out there. And you know, we’ll have to defend the takedown all day long —and we will get taken down. But Carlos is going to get back up. Carlos is going to try to hurt Georges every chance he gets.

Coach Winkeljohn may not cherish the spotlight, but he better get used to it—especially if his fighters keep striking their way to highlight-reel finishes, and his partner continues staying away from high-profile bouts between the embarrassment of top-tier talent and riches at Jackson-Winkeljohn MMA.


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UFC 137: Coach Greg Jackson Tells B/R How He Really Feels About Condit vs. GSP

Albuquerque, NM—Coach Greg Jackson has earned a likeness in the MMA community to a certain diminutive trainer of Jedi masters. The comparison is unsought, but his office, a well-worn guru cave, certainly plays the part.Stacked and strewn with lit…

Albuquerque, NM—Coach Greg Jackson has earned a likeness in the MMA community to a certain diminutive trainer of Jedi masters. The comparison is unsought, but his office, a well-worn guru cave, certainly plays the part.

Stacked and strewn with little regard for visibility, or even order, are various pieces of physical evidence of the esteem awarded to the world-class camp he runs. This includes an assortment of Yoda paraphernalia collected on Jackson’s behalf—from slippers to wall hangings, to a Jedi mind Contcol training device.

Lately, Coach Jackson has been dealing with some tremors in the force. After managing for years to avoid fights between members of his team, Jackson got blindsided by the sudden imminence, or so it seemed, of a light heavyweight title scrap between champion Jon Jones and his teammate, former champ Rashad Evans.

Although the fight eventually fell through, it wasn’t long before a similar situation arose just a few months later, when Carlos Condit was offered a title fight against Jackson’s stable-mate Georges St-Pierre. This time, however, Jackson was ready, with a system of protocols in place that had already been agreed upon by his fighters, regarding how such situations would be handled.

Bleacher Report joined coach Jackson in his cave recently to get his take on a variety of topics, including body shots, game-planning against Anderson Silva, the first teammate vs. teammate fight in Jackson camp history, and the star-making power of the Jackson’s MMA Series fight cards, held regularly in Albuquerque.

On teammates fighting each other:

When that first happened with Rashad and Jon it really caught me off guard. My fault for not handling that better. I should have had protocols in place before that, but I just never thought it would be a huge reality.

It turned out to be a huge reality, so we put protocols in place, had team meetings. Everyone’s on the same sheet of music now. So when it happened between Carlos and Georges, everybody was kind of ready for it. If teammates fight teammates, there’s things that we’ll all do.

It’s one of the things it has to be done. It’s the UFC. It’s the big show. You can’t deny people their dreams. Carlos really wants the title; Georges really wants to keep it. They should have a great fight.

 

On how UFC 137 will be handled:

I’m going to have two fighters that night. I’ll have Donald Cerrone and Eliot Marshall. So I’ll have those two guys and the other coaches [Mike Winkeljohn and Chris Luttrell] on our team will take care of the last fight. It’s one of those things.

I don’t like it. It’s not something I enjoy, but it’s something we have to do. That’s the job sometimes. So I’ll just be staying out of it.

 

On looking across the gym during the next few weeks, and seeing his coaches prepare Carlos to punch GSP in the face:

It’s something that I’m not involved in on either end, so it’s not going to be incredibly hard.  I’m sure Carlos is going to try and do his job and win the fight; Georges is going to try and do his job and win the fight. It doesn’t concern me either way, I won’t be training either guy.

It’s not like this huge emotional thing because we’re ready for it now. We understand that’s what it’s going to be like.


On being blindsided by the realities of his camp’s success:

We have to grow and evolve to the situation, and the demands of that situation and the reality is we’ve got a lot of top guys in almost every single weight division of the UFCand that’s the best organization in the world.

So we have to adapt and make sure that we’re not selfish and it’s not about me it’s about the fighters and we have to make sure they all get their chance.

 

On the possibility, if Brian Stann gets by Chael Sonnen, of preparing for Anderson Silva:

Well, you know I’ve done it before. Anderson is one of my favorite fighters. I love him. I think he’s an amazing artist. I love, love watching him fight. He’s one of the very few hyper-creative fighters out there that I like to watch.

You know, I shouldn’t say that, there’s a lot of good creative fighters I like but I just like the way he…does his things; it’s very impressive. So yeah, we have to figure out a way to win, and that’s going to be very hard, and we’ll see how that goes.

 

On Jackson’s fighters landing a lot of effective body shots lately:

Everything should be balanced. I think people aren’t used to the body attacks at this point in MMA. Certainly they are in boxing. I think that so many people have been headhunting for so long in MMA that people have been leaving their bodies exposed, and we’ve been taking advantage of that.

 

On the Jackson’s MMA series, which happens four times a year at the Hard Rock Café in Albuquerque:

It’s a great place for these young guys to get their feet wet, see if the cage life is what they want, if MMA is the path they want to pursue. It’s to help our guys get to the big fights and to the big stage.

So you see these young guys with talent develop and grow, and next time you see them it might be in the UFC. [According to Jackson’s manager, Ricky Kottenstette, six fighters have gone to either the UFC or Strikeforce after fighting on Jackson’s MMA Series cards.]

 

On Jodie Esquibel, an Albuquerque firefighter and paramedic, long-time pro boxer, now 1-0 as a pro in MMA (and engaged to Keith Jardine):

She’s amazing, she’s amazing. She had a great fight, she had a beautiful head kick in her [April 9th] debut. She’s going to box again [against Ji-Hyun Park on November 19 in Goeje City, South Korea] and then she’s going to be switching more to MMA. She’s phenomenal. Great athlete, great person, and very talented fighter.

 

On the new Jackson’s satellite gym he’s opening in Albuquerque:

It’s going to be a lot more curriculum-oriented, whereas here it’s more for the fighters. Up there you’re going to get a lot more of the basics, a lot more individual attention.

The hardcore fighters are going to stay here at this location. We’re going to get the people that are just having a good time learning how to defend themselves and getting in shape; those guys will be at the new gym. It will be nice because the two won’t be getting in the way of each other. 

 

Does that mean I’ll be losing my chance to spar with Jon Jones?

You can spar with him any time you want. I wouldn’t recommend it though.

 

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Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Forrest Griffin: Why Retirement May Be a Smart Option

Forrest Griffin and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira should both consider retiring. Look, I’m not trying to tell anyone what to do—especially guys who could squash me as easily as I hit the snooze button in the morning. I’m not saying that th…

Forrest Griffin and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira should both consider retiring.

Look, I’m not trying to tell anyone what to do—especially guys who could squash me as easily as I hit the snooze button in the morning. I’m not saying that these two legends should retire, but only that they should both consider it, for different but equally compelling reasons.

Fight careers end in one of two ways: Either a fighter chooses to retire or retirement chooses the fighter. In the UFC, retirement often comes in the reaper-like form of a feisty bald guy with lots of T-shirts. He either cuts you like excess baggage, or if he really likes you he makes you an offer you can’t refuse.

I’m speaking of course about UFC president Dana White. When Chuck Liddell’s time came, White wrangled the former champ into accepting an ambassadorial position with the company (vice president of mumbles, I think) in exchange for turning in his four-ounce gloves.

When Mark Coleman’s time came, by contrast, the legendary fighter hadn’t wiggled close enough to the corporate bosom to receive a company post, and he was unceremoniously dropped from the roster following his UFC 109 main event loss to Randy Couture.

Both Griffin and Nogueira are of a stature in the UFC such that they’re assured work with the company as long as they want it—just not necessary in the cage. Nogueira is one of the most decorated and legendary heavyweights in MMA history and has been an irreplaceable ambassador for the UFC and MMA for years. If it wasn’t for Griffin, meanwhile, and his historic fight with Stephan Bonnar in the Ultimate Fighter Season 1 Finale, the UFC might still be $60 million in the hole, or a distant memory.

When it comes to retirement, as with cage fighting, its better if you don’t leave your fate in the hands of others. Chris Lytle may not have won a championship belt, but he set a high water mark of his own in the life priorities department when he walked away from the game, still healthy, on his own terms, while still at the top of his game.

Couture’s farewell party wasn’t quite so perfect, having been spoiled by Lyoto Machida’s impromptu dental work. Still, Couture’s decision to retire was the right one, at an appropriate time and on his own terms.

Today, Nogueira now has a chance to go out as gloriously as Lytle did. With a dramatic finish of a young punk who had the audacity to call him out, Nogueira would have a career—and a retirement—to be proud of.

Griffin, meanwhile, has the less glamorous opportunity to go out more like Couture: for the right reasons, on his own terms and after getting the tar beaten out of him by some Brazilian striker. While the Lytle-style ending would clearly be preferable to Couture-style, Griffin would still be able to hold his head higher than he would, say, after a few more KO losses when White nudges him into a Liddell-style retirement.

After “Minotauro” outgunned a trigger-happy Brendan Schuab in Rio, few are currently arguing he can’t hang in the UFC heavyweight pack. Nogueira, at 35, is not even as old as teammate Anderson Silva, who you may have noticed is still at the top of his game. But in “Nog” years, Minotauro is a lot older. Since the time he was run over by a truck as a kid, Nog’s life choices have brought him an uninterrupted stream of bodily punishment.

And despite his resilience, Nogueira has little chance of scaling today’s heavyweight food chain. Certainly his brutal KO at the hands of Cain Velasquez seems more forgivable now that we’ve seen what Velasquez has done since. But the fighters at the top of the division are pushing hard to evolve their skill sets while Big Nog has been stuck in rehab for his dual hip replacement, a trend that seems like it could continue.

If I were Nogueira (a comically big “if”), I’d give my body a much deserved vacation, enjoy my new hips (Brazilians reportedly know how to do this) and phase gracefully into being a trainer. Or a politician. Or an actor. Or a UFC ambassador. Or just hang out on the beach and play soccer. He has all the money and glory a prizefighter could want.

Griffin, at only 32 years old, is atypically young for retirement talk, but when you’re talking about a fighter who’s strongest asset may be his ability to take punishment, you can assume his body has near Nogueira level of mileage on it. During the week before the fight, when he wasn’t complaining about being in Rio, Griffin had an almost Zen-like aura to him that nearly made me second-guess my pick of Mauricio Shogun. Looking back, that peaceful quality of Griffin’s may have been an expression of his grim determination that “this shall soon pass.” He also could have been thinking about home.

During the fight, while he was getting beaten senseless by Shogun, Griffin’s wife entered the early stages of labor with their first child back home in Las Vegas. That kind of impending life change can wreak havoc on your entire camp, but even without this new distraction, the odds are long that a questionably motivated Griffin re-conquers the light heavyweight division. Since losing his belt to Rashad Evans in late 2008 at UFC 92, Griffin’s only wins have been senior circuit members Tito Ortiz and Rich Franklin.

By Griffin’s own admission his game hasn’t progressed, and few would argue that. He seems to have lost the fire to evolve, as the top echelons of the sport demand. He’s financially secure, with a job waiting for him at the UFC if he wants it. What does he have to gain by getting fed to the young lions or beating up more old men?

While Griffin’s second fight with Shogun might not be the most desirable way to end a career, from a future job security perspective today could be a wise time to leave. In a post-fight interview with Ariel Helwani of MMA Fighting, Dana White made it clear he’s well aware of Griffin’s impending fatherhood, as well the fact that Griffin really didn’t want to be in Rio at all. If Griffin were to go out on such a note of service to the UFC, after playing an integral part of the momentous and successful UFC 134, and after helping save the company’s ass in 2006, Griffin would easily have college tuition paid for as many children as he cares to have.

Is either one of these warriors ready to hang ’em up? Probably not. But I’d bet more on Griffin than Noguiera pulling the plug at this point.

However, if neither one will accept my suggestion to hang ’em up, I do have an alternative: Have them fight each other, and the loser goes home. 

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