Featuring four of the finest women’s bantamweight fighters on earth, UFC 184 goes down live in Los Angeles on Saturday.
With a main event that showcases women’s bantamweight champion and UFC superstar Ronda Rousey vs. Cat Zingano and a co-main event featuring one of the most decorated female prospects in UFC history in Holly Holm vs. Raquel Pennington, the event marks a historic moment for the UFC.
To break down this event, Bleacher Report talked with UFC light heavyweight and Fox Sports analyst Daniel “DC” Cormier. We dished about the importance of the event, the state of women’s MMA and more.
Bleacher Report: We have UFC 184 coming to Los Angeles. It’s just days away, and for the first time in UFC history, we have a main and co-main event held down by the ladies. How big is this card for women’s MMA?
Daniel Cormier: It’s huge. I always try to think about the significance of something in terms of history. How is this going to be remembered? It’ll be remembered like Ronda (Rousey) vs. Liz Carmouche a couple years ago or (Gina) Carano vs. (Cris) “Cyborg” (Justino). You had two women headlining a card for the first time, now you have Ronda headlining a card—she’s done that twice—now there are two girls in Raquel (Pennington) and Holly (Holm) who get to go in the co-main event, so this thing is built around these women.
Could we have ever thought about a UFC event headlined by four women? It’s crazy to think we’ve come so far in such a short period of time, but it’s right. It’s what should be happening right now.
B/R: And like you said, the historical significance is really important to keep in mind. When you think about that, how much of it is a product of Rousey and her marketability? Could this have ever happened without her?
DC: No. It’s 100 percent her. On Wednesday they asked the question, “Do you ever believe that women’s MMA will be at the level of men’s mixed martial arts?” And I said, “This is the test.” This is the test right here. Ronda Rousey is the biggest star women’s MMA has ever seen. Ronda Rousey might be the biggest star that women’s MMA will ever see. There may never be another Ronda Rousey. She’s once in a lifetime. No one will probably reach that level.
I know we thought that about Carano at the time, but then here comes Ronda, who has everything. She can’t lose a fight, she’s good-looking, she can act, she’s an Olympian, she’s had a lifetime of athletic accomplishments to back everything. As you push Ronda into the mainstream, people will want to question, “Oh, this is a girl fighter, this is a female fighter, what are you basing this on that she’s the best in the world?” Well, with Ronda Rousey, it’s her pedigree. It’s her multiple national championships. It’s her lifetime of competition.
There may never be a star or a person in women’s MMA bigger than Ronda Rousey, so this is the tell. This weekend will tell you how the sport will be remembered. And, no, it would have never happened this way without Ronda Rousey. It is 110 percent the doing of one woman. I know it sounds kind of weird to put that all on one person, but I think Ronda was so hard to ignore that the UFC had to take notice.
B/R: I personally think you’re spot on there, but that fact alone makes you think…Ronda isn’t going to fight forever. Like you said, she has acting, she has other things going on, and besides that, fighters get older. So when she’s gone, can women’s MMA maintain this level of success?
DC: You know, man, I think these women needed an opportunity. Gina Carano opened the door in Strikeforce and EliteXC, and Ronda opened the door to the UFC. I think now they’ll be OK. You have girls like Paige VanZant, Felice Herrig, Carla Esparza and Rose Namajunas—these girls all have something about them that can actually maintain the sport. Not only the fighting, but you look at Paige with her personality, Felice with her personality, Carla with her ability to just compete like a flat-out warrior, Miesha Tate…I think the sport will be OK now.
I think these women just needed an opportunity to step inside the door, but they needed a leader, a person who was not going to be denied, a person who was going to bang on the door until you opened it.
And Ronda Rousey was that person. Now I believe these women will be OK. They are so talented, they are so smart, they have so much personality. They’ll be OK.
B/R: You’ve kind of touched on what you think of Rousey as a fighter, and it’s nothing but praise, but some people are calling Rousey vs. Zingano “Ali vs. Frazier.” I think Kevin Iole of Yahoo Sports actually made that comparison. Other people are saying Rousey is already a top-10 female athlete of all time. That’s not just fighter—top-10 female athlete. Do you think that’s fair, or is the hyperbole a little premature at this point?
DC: Again, you point to active, and you point to her rap sheet. You look at her rap sheet, she was a pro in judo. We all got the Sports Illustrated “Faces in the Crowd.” Ronda was in there as a baby. Then she goes on to be a two-time Olympian, and on the first Olympic team she was a kid, she was like 18 years old. She goes on to get a medal at the Olympics, and I’m not exactly sure, but I think she was the first American woman to actually win an Olympic medal (in judo).
From that to becoming the UFC champion, that’s two really high-level sports that she’s competed at and reached the pinnacle in those sports.
I believe she does compare. Because who are you comparing her to? You said “women athletes” of all time, but if I was to say, “Herschel Walker one of the greatest athletes of all time,” I would say, “He just might be.” The guy was a great football player, he was a track-and-field athlete, he was on the Olympic bobsled team and the guy has fought in mixed martial arts, so when you talk “athlete,” his rap sheet proves that Herschel Walker is one of the greatest athletes in the history of sports. So when it comes to that, yeah, I see Ronda comparing to everybody because her accomplishments are not specific to one sport.
B/R: We mentioned the historical significance of this bout earlier, but I think the history books might show there’s an asterisk beside this one. Originally, it was supposed to be (UFC middleweight champion Chris) Weidman vs. (Vitor) Belfort and also (Ronaldo) Jacare (Souza) and (Yoel) Romero were on the card. How big of a blow is losing those two fights to this card?
DC: Huge. Huge. And it’s not even just those two. (Frank) Mir and (Antonio) “Bigfoot” (Silva) were supposed to fight here too. So you’re supposed to have Weidman vs. Belfort, Rousey vs. Zingano, Jacare vs. Romero, Bigfoot vs. Mir and (Josh) Koscheck vs. (Jake) Ellenberger. That’s a huge fight card.
So what you did was one of two things. First, you say, “Ronda Rousey is big enough to carry this thing, so we’re staying the course. She’s the new main event.” Credit to Ronda’s star power. Second, you made UFC Fox in New Jersey stronger by adding Jacare vs. Romero on the (Luke) Rockhold vs. (Lyoto) Machida card, and then you made Memorial Day weekend the biggest UFC event since UFC 100.
Not only do you have (UFC light heavyweight champion Jon) Jones vs. (Anthony) Johnson, you’ve got Weidman vs. Belfort, too. So those two fights hurt this one, but they elevated two other fight cards, and it goes to show you how big this Los Angeles fight card actually was.
B/R: To the point of Rousey‘s star power, in the past her main events did pretty modest buyrates on pay-per-view. Is this the card where that changes? Is she bigger now than ever and is that going to change?
DC: This will be the tell, because her star has never shined so brightly. She’s in movies now, big movies, I mean, Fast and the Furious, Entourage—she’s everywhere. Ronda Rousey is recognizable. We, as athletes, we do media. But a select few get to do the Jimmy Kimmels and the Jay Lenos, and Ronda is one of those people who get to do all of that, so we’ll see.
This is the tell. She’s never been more popular, and there’s an opponent in front of her who people think can actually beat her. Look at what happened with Jones. When they thought I could beat him, we sold a ton of pay-per-views. When he fought Rashad (Evans), he sold a ton of pay-per-views. When they thought he was going to walk through people, pay-per-views didn’t do so good.
You got Ronda Rousey in a position now where they think this is a girl who can compete against her, she’s as popular as she’s ever been, and you’ll have to look at the numbers.
B/R: Below Rousey, in the co-main event, we have Holly Holm making her UFC debut, and it looks like the UFC is kind of gearing her up to be a big-time star as well. She’s looked phenomenal in the past, but as I remember you mentioning, the UFC jitters are a real thing. That stage is a little different. Do you expect to see a little more tentative, maybe nervous, version of her?
DC: Yeah, I think it’ll be a little bit different. It’ll be tough for Holly. This is something Holly never had expected. We talked to Holly on UFC Tonight on Wednesday, and she said herself, “I would have preferred to have been in a prelim fight as opposed to the co-main event, just to kind of get my feet wet. But you know what? It’s the co-main event, so it is what it is, and I’m going to go out there and compete like I always have.”
It’s a big stage. This place is going to be on fire by the time Holly walks to the Octagon, and we’re going to get to see what she’s made of. She’s got, I think, a bulldog in front of her. Raquel Pennington is not going to roll over for Holly Holm. She’s going to go in there and fight her. We’ll see exactly what Holly Holm is made of this weekend.
B/R: Pennington, like you said, is super tough, but if people just do a quick search of her, they see her record, and it’s pretty modest. It’s barely over .500. Does that hurt Holm‘s stock, the fact that maybe people don’t realize exactly what Pennington brings to the table?
DC: You know what, man? It’s all “what have you done for me lately?” She pulled that nasty bulldog choke off against (Ashlee) Evans-Smith last fight, she showed how tough she is to take that cut and continue to press forward and continue to fight like she did. Her stock is as high as it’s ever been. This is her moment. This is Raquel Pennington’s moment to do something special, something she probably never thought she could do. It’s a big moment for her, so we’ll see.
It doesn’t hurt Holly, though. When you’re a person who comes into an elite organization with any type of momentum behind you, you usually get a fight where the matchup is decent for you. And that’s exactly what Holly is getting this weekend.
B/R: In addition to this fight, we get an interesting bout, in my opinion, in Koscheck vs. Ellenberger. It’s not interesting to me because either guy is an immediate title challenger; it’s actually the total opposite. I feel like the guy who loses might be out of the UFC. What exactly is at stake here?
DC: I think everything is at stake. Honestly, for Ellenberger, I believe it’s his job. He needs to get it done. For Koscheck, I don’t believe that they’ll cut Josh Koscheck. He’s been so important to this organization, he’s worked so long in the UFC and I don’t think Koscheck would ever fight anywhere else. So if Koscheck doesn’t fight well in there and he’s at a crossroads, I believe he would retire.
Do I think it’s the time for Kos to retire? No. Keep things in perspective. I always tell people that. Josh Koscheck lost to (Tyron) Woodley, (Robbie) Lawler and (Johny) Hendricks. They’re ranked No. 1, 2 and 3 in the welterweight division.
We have to not just look at the record, and that was one of my biggest issues with the John Lineker vs. Ian McCall thing. McCall went and fought because he’s a man. But a year from now, it’ll be a loss on Ian McCall’s record and it’ll be a win on John Lineker‘s. People won’t say, “Oh, but the guy (Lineker) was overweight by 10 pounds.” It’ll be a win and a loss.
So you look at Koscheck, he’s lost three in a row, but you lose sight of the fact that he’s lost to the three best guys in the division. Let’s see how he does against a guy who’s in the same position as he is.
B/R: While you’ve never been in their position, specifically, on a long skid, you did just suffer your first professional loss, so maybe you can shed a little light here. What kind of emotions do you think they’re feeling, and how does losing fuel them? Is it motivating, depressing, a little of both?
DC: It’ll motivate them, because these guys are pros. They’ve not only competed in mixed martial arts, they’ve competed as wrestlers, too. So we’ve all dealt with losses. For me, it’s motivating. It makes me say, “I’m going to get better so I don’t feel this anymore.” I feel safe to speak for Koscheck in the same sense because I saw that guy become a four-time NCAA All-American, and I know Jake Ellenberger is a warrior, man. That guy won’t roll over.
So let’s see who shows up. Let’s see if Jake Ellenberger is in the moment. Sometimes Jake seems like he’s not really there. I don’t know why, but other times he’s there, and when he’s there, he’s on fire.
But these guys have been fighting the cream of the crop. …So these guys aren’t losing to duds. They’re so good, and their name carries so much value that they’re still getting to fight the best the division has to offer.
B/R: What’s a fight beyond these top three that you look at and say, “Man, this is a fight the fans just can’t miss. They have to tune in for this one”?
DC: It’s a good fight card, so there are a number of them. I want to see how (Norifumi) “Kid” Yamamoto does. He’s been out for a while, and we expected a ton from him when he first came to the UFC.
Alan Jouban vs. Richard Walsh is another great fight. I think the whole fight card is going to be fun, but if you’re looking for pure entertainment, tune to Derrick Lewis and Ruan Potts, because the Black Beast is the most aggressive human being I think I’ve ever seen step inside the Octagon.
Ruan Potts is 0-2 (in the UFC), and I think he might in a little trouble against Derrick Lewis this weekend. So if you’re looking for entertainment, one guy trying to knock the other guy’s head off, watch that one.
B/R: You can’t go wrong with the heavyweights for sure. To close out the interview, DC, I’m going to make some predictions, and I want you to tell me if I’m right or wrong and why. Sound good?
DC: Yep, that’s fine.
B/R: I think Ronda Rousey finishes Zingano before Round 3.
DC: I agree. I have to agree with that. She’s (Rousey) special.
B/R: Holly Holm wins against Raquel Pennington, but she wins via decision and it doesn’t necessarily set her up as the next great challenger for the title.
DC: You know what? I actually kind of agree with that one, too. I think she’s going to win, but I don’t know if you can put too many expectations on her. It’ll be hard to live up to the expectations set for her.
B/R: I think Koscheck actually gets back in the win column, fights one more time, then retires. What do you think?
DC: I agree, but you’re only saying that because you know I’m going to pick Koscheck. Nice try!
B/R: *Laughs* Hey, man, I have to make myself sound good, too. Last one: Despite the lack of big-time name recognition, I think this is going to be a great card, and I think at least half the fights end in finishes.
DC: I believe you will see a lot of finishes this weekend, yes. I believe that.
B/R: Perfect. Thank you for the time, DC. Have a great one.
DC: All right, man, thank you. Have a good one.
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