Former welterweight champion and now newly minted middleweight champion Georges St-Pierre did the unthinkable when he defeated Michael Bisping at UFC 217. Now sporting two belts and a 26-2 record in MMA, many fans have concluded that GSP is the greatest of all-time in terms of mixed martial arts, a claim GSP himself rejects entirely. […]
Former welterweight champion and now newly minted middleweight champion Georges St-Pierre did the unthinkable when he defeated Michael Bisping at UFC 217.
Now sporting two belts and a 26-2 record in MMA, many fans have concluded that GSP is the greatest of all-time in terms of mixed martial arts, a claim GSP himself rejects entirely.
St-Pierre revealed his thoughts on his GOAT status at a recent conference call interview (via MMA Junkie):
“There’s no such thing as the greatest of all time. It doesn’t exist. It’s an illusion.”
“Even though you’re the best, it doesn’t mean you’re not going lose,” St-Pierre said. “And it doesn’t mean nobody’s going to beat you. For example, I fought Michael Bisping Saturday night, at Madison Square Garden. In that particular night, at that particular moment, at that particular place, I beat Michael Bisping. But that doesn’t mean if I fight him tomorrow that he’s not going to beat me.”
True to his humble nature, GSP deflected the GOAT claim and offered up his own interpretation.
But while Saint Pierre may scoff at the idea, many fans and pundits alike have him among the all-time greats. The most dominant champion and most dominant welterweight in MMA and UFC history takes four years off only to come back and win the middleweight title? He’s simply peerless when it comes to GOAT discussion.
How do you rank GSP among the greatest of all-time?
I definitely have a huge advantage when it comes down to exchanging punches. That’s my strong point, and that’s definitely going to be his weak point.
I can’t not picture me knocking him out. So he better do some chin-ups or whatever he needs to do to make him strong, because I’m coming for him. He’s not going to be able to handle my power standing and banging. He stands in the pocket with me, he’s gonna get knocked out.
Those words might as well have served as the last will and testament of noted patriarchBrett Rogers, who upon saying them, all but signed up to be violently and karmatically (for a number of reasons) knocked out by Fedor Emelianenko at Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers on November 7th, 2009 — four years ago today.
Us Zuffa shills tend to forget this, but before Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, or Georges St. Pierre started dominating our “Greatest Mixed Martial Artist of All Time” (aka “The G.O.A.T”) debates, there was an emotionless Russian killer who was universally viewed in this light. His name was Fedor Emelianenko, and after quietly building a reputation as PRIDE‘s most dominant fighter over in Japan, “The Last Emperor” made his long-awaited stateside debut against Tim Sylvia at Affliction: Banned in July of 2008.
The fight would confirm what we already knew about Fedor, as would his next fight with Andrei Arlovski at Affliction: Day of Reckoning, but it wasn’t until his monumental signing with Strikeforce (a Strikeforce was kind of like a Bellator, but we don’t have time to discuss semantics) that US fans were truly introduced to the mythical Russian. And for his first “true” test, Emelianenko was given Brett “Da Grim” Rogers, a then-undefeated slugger who had one-upped Fedor by KO’ing Arlovski in just 22 seconds in his previous fight.
I definitely have a huge advantage when it comes down to exchanging punches. That’s my strong point, and that’s definitely going to be his weak point.
I can’t not picture me knocking him out. So he better do some chin-ups or whatever he needs to do to make him strong, because I’m coming for him. He’s not going to be able to handle my power standing and banging. He stands in the pocket with me, he’s gonna get knocked out.
Those words might as well have served as the last will and testament of noted patriarchBrett Rogers, who upon saying them, all but signed up to be violently and karmatically (for a number of reasons) knocked out by Fedor Emelianenko at Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers on November 7th, 2009 – four years ago today.
Us Zuffa shills tend to forget this, but before Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, or Georges St. Pierre started dominating our “Greatest Mixed Martial Artist of All Time” (aka “The G.O.A.T”) debates, there was an emotionless Russian killer who was universally viewed in this light. His name was Fedor Emelianenko, and after quietly building a reputation as PRIDE‘s most dominant fighter over in Japan, “The Last Emperor” made his long-awaited stateside debut against Tim Sylvia at Affliction: Banned in July of 2008.
The fight would confirm what we already knew about Fedor, as would his next fight with Andrei Arlovski at Affliction: Day of Reckoning, but it wasn’t until his monumental signing with Strikeforce (a Strikeforce was kind of like a Bellator, but we don’t have time to discuss semantics) that US fans were truly introduced to the mythical Russian. And for his first “true” test, Emelianenko was given Brett “Da Grim” Rogers, a then-undefeated slugger who had one-upped Fedor by KO’ing Arlovski in just 22 seconds in his previous fight.
Fedor fans near and far flooded Illinois for the chance to see their hero compete. Fedor detractors (*cough* Dana White *cough*), on the other hand, were chomping at the bit to see him fail like they knew he would all along. And for the first five minutes of the contest, it looked as if the latter group might actually get their wish. Rogers punished Emelianenko with ground-n-pound, leaving “The Last Emperor” in worse shape than fans had ever seen prior.
But there is a reason why one round MMA fights were outlawed in the Geneva Convention, Potato Nation.
Like a scene out of a Friday the 13th movie (specifically,Jason Takes Manhattan), Emelianenko literally decapitated a gassed Rogers with an overhand right just under two minutes into the second, silencing his haters and solidifying his legacy as the baddest man to ever walk the Earth ever.
If our memory serves us correct, Fedor was legally forced to retire from mixed martial and register his hands as weapons of mass destruction after the Rogers fight. Emelianenko would abide with the grace and humility he had become infamous for over his long career, leaving behind a 32-1 record and a lifetime’s worth of highlight reel finishes. Yep, that’s how we are choosing to remember it. LALALALALA WE CAN’T HEAR YOU, FABRICIO.
Check out a full replay of Fedor vs. Rogers below, then ask yourself if we’ll ever see a fighter as perfect and unbeatable as Emelianenko again. Spoiler alert: The answer is no.
Last week, I had you play a word association game regarding a few UFC’s champions. For Georges St. Pierre and Jon Jones, I suggested the first word to pop into your head was “boring” and “spurious” respectively. However, when Anderson Silva‘s name came up, I said the word that would first break into your consciousness was “greatness.” Now that I think about it a little more, “hubris” may have taken its place, especially after Silva’s impetuous performance against Chris Weidman during UFC 162‘s main event. You hear the word hubris and almost immediately conjure the scene of Silva clowning Weidman and subsequently getting throttled for it. A ballet of mockery gone awry.
That sequence of events will forever be etched in the memory of MMA fans around the world and, for fans of Greek Mythology, it calls to mind the story of Icarus. As legend has it, Icarus’ father, Daedalus, constructed wings out of feathers and wax for the two of them in hopes of making a jailbreak. The woefully ignorant Icarus, full of hubris, instantly fell in love with flying (something only the gods were able to do), ignored his father’s warning about getting too close to the sun or flying near the sea, and soared as high as his makeshift wings would take him. Tragically, they would take him close enough to the sun that the wax melted, leaving our youthful protagonist flapping his arms in vain. Next thing you know, the falling Athenian crashes into the sea and drowns.
*****
Here we are a few days removed and no one is really sure what to make of the events that transpired at the MGM Grand Garden Arena. To accurately figure out what happened in Vegas over the holiday weekend we should, perhaps, start by identifying what didn’t.
Last week, I had you play a word association game regarding a few UFC’s champions. For Georges St. Pierre and Jon Jones, I suggested the first word to pop into your head was “boring” and “spurious” respectively. However, when Anderson Silva‘s name came up, I said the word that would first break into your consciousness was “greatness.” Now that I think about it a little more, “hubris” may have taken its place, especially after Silva’s impetuous performance against Chris Weidman during UFC 162‘s main event. You hear the word hubris and almost immediately conjure the scene of Silva clowning Weidman and subsequently getting throttled for it. A ballet of mockery gone awry.
That sequence of events will forever be etched in the memory of MMA fans around the world and, for fans of Greek Mythology, it calls to mind the story of Icarus. As legend has it, Icarus’ father, Daedalus, constructed wings out of feathers and wax for the two of them in hopes of making a jailbreak. The woefully ignorant Icarus, full of hubris, instantly fell in love with flying (something only the gods were able to do), ignored his father’s warning about getting too close to the sun or flying near the sea, and soared as high as his makeshift wings would take him. Tragically, they would take him close enough to the sun that the wax melted, leaving our youthful protagonist flapping his arms in vain. Next thing you know, the falling Athenian crashes into the sea and drowns.
*****
Here we are a few days removed and no one is really sure what to make of the events that transpired at the MGM Grand Garden Arena. To accurately figure out what happened in Vegas over the holiday weekend we should, perhaps, start by identifying what didn’t.
Late Saturday night, the world picked its collective jaw up from off the floor and tried to process what had just transpired in the Octagon. Could they have really seen what they thought they saw? Moments later, Bruce Buffer confirmed that we had, as only he can — “Aaaaannnd new…!!!” The consensus pound-for-pound greatest of all time, Anderson Silva, had been knocked off the middleweight throne in spectacularly brutal fashion.
Before Joe Rogan removed his headset to make his way into the Octagon for his usual post-fight interview, conspiracy theorists took to social media to call into question the official narrative of the mainstream media. A quick glance at Twitter immediately after the main event revealed that sports fans (myself included) are often prisoners of the moment, blind with emotion, or drunk at 12:30 AM.
If you’ve been on the internet at all in the days since, you’ve heard that Silva threw the fight to set up a lucrative rematch later on down the road, possibly during Super Bowl weekend 2014. You’ve also heard that after 16 years of earning a living cracking skulls in front of thousands of bloodthirsty fans he wanted to retire, and the easiest way he knew how was to put Chris Weidman over and pass the torch. Ideally, this would prevent UFC President Dana White from antagonizing him in the media in an attempt to capitalize on his mystique and drawing power. Let me reassure you…that didn’t happen. Silva didn’t lay down for anyone.
Had the fix been in, as was also suspected in more than a few fights over the years, it would have been more convenient and less humiliating for Silva to have tapped once Weidman applied the leg lock. If a retirement was at the forefront of his mind (Hint: It wasn’t — he still plans on fulfilling his 10-fight contract) simply doing what we all know he is capable of, getting one final ‘W’, and walking off into the sunset the undisputed G.O.A.T. is obviously preferable to potentially besmirching his legacy.
Yet another popular theory surrounding “The Spider’s” charades is that of boredom. Yes, it is believed by some that, out of boredom with fighting (or perceived lack of challenge in his opponent), the UFC middleweight champion needed to up the ante just to keep himself motivated to step into the cage again. By continually dropping his defenses, the runway was lit and waiting for all incoming fists. That in and of itself would’ve been enough of an obstacle for a guy squaring off against such a heavy hitter — but not Silva. He needed to stack the deck against himself even further by showboating around the Octagon.
When you fight like that against Stephan Bonnar, fans get it — you’re not concerned with his ability to shake your hand too hard, let alone erase your consciousness. Do it against an undefeated, two time Division I All-American wrestler with the power to make your eyes roll in the back of your head with the swing of a fist, and expect people to question your game plan. But this wasn’t the first time we’ve seen this out of Silva. Remember UFC 90, 97, 112, or 153? Each of these events are chapters in Silva’s book, The Art of War Clowning, and even more reason not to be surprised at his in-cage antics. Another myth busted. None of the conspiracy theories hold any water if you take more than three minutes to think before you reach your conclusion.
*****
So, what exactly did happen that night? If the champion didn’t throw the fight and he didn’t act any more absurd than in the past, how could this have happened?
Have you considered giving Chris Weidman any credit at all for doing what no one else before him could? Admittedly, I hadn’t until sometime Monday afternoon. At one point I used the words “gift wrapped” when discussing the title changing hands as a result of Silva’s performance against such a dangerous fighter. Like many other MMA pundits, I too was a prisoner of the moment. Now that the dust has settled, it’s painfully clear that the New York native is deserving of more credit for a victory that was far more calculated than it was fortuitous. Either that or Silva was caught flying too close to the sun.
For as long as man has competed against one another, man has been keeping score. What was once recorded on a stone tablet is now saved on a laptop somewhere in the annals of sports history. A quick search for “greatest of all time” will reveal a list of several sports, both familiar and alien. Click on ‘Basketball’ and you’re redirected to a page for Michael Jordan, ‘Hockey’ for Wayne Gretzky. When you reach the ‘M’s,’ somewhere between ‘Marathon Running’ and ‘Motocross,’ you’ll find the sport that connects us all — Mixed Martial Arts. One more click of the mouse and you’re staring at the image of unequivocal excellence, and he goes by the name Anderson Silva.
The unassuming Brazilian stares back at you, championship belt draped over his shoulder. If you didn’t know any better, you’d never in a thousand years peg him as the guy who’s left a pile of broken bodies from multiple weight classes in the wake of his seven-year, seventeen-fight win streak. Among the casualties are five (current and/or future) members of the illustriousUFC Hall of Fame. Those battle-tested titans of the arena were no match for “The Spider.” How could they be? The UFC middleweight champion posses otherworldly skills and ability, and an uncanny penchant for violence. Which reminds me; one of the greatest things about modern record keeping is the ability to relive history through streaming video. Check this out:
During Silva’s sensational career, he’s amassed a spectacular number of UFC records. And while a summary of his accomplishments fail to do his legacy any justice, they’re too remarkable not to mention. The 38-year-old Muay Thai savant owns records for the most knockdowns landed (17), longest winning streak (16), and longest title defense streak (10). The São Paulo native is the most accurate striker in the organization, landing 67.8% of the significant strikes he hurls his opponent’s way. What’s more is that 63% of his opponent’s significant strikes touch nothing but air. Did you know he’s tied with Joe Lauzon for the record for most post-fight bonuses (12) and he’s been awarded Knockout of the Night honors (6) more than any fighter to have ever stepped in the Octagon? His numbers are outstanding, but they only tell half the story.
(“It is true greatness, to have in one the frailty of a man, and the security of a God.” – Sir Francis Bacon / Image via Stephen Torreno)
For as long as man has competed against one another, man has been keeping score. What was once recorded on a stone tablet is now saved on a laptop somewhere in the annals of sports history. A quick search for “greatest of all time” will reveal a list of several sports, both familiar and alien. Click on ‘Basketball’ and you’re redirected to a page for Michael Jordan, ‘Hockey’ for Wayne Gretzky. When you reach the ‘M’s,’ somewhere between ‘Marathon Running’ and ‘Motocross,’ you’ll find the sport that connects us all — Mixed Martial Arts. One more click of the mouse and you’re staring at the image of unequivocal excellence, and he goes by the name Anderson Silva.
The unassuming Brazilian stares back at you, championship belt draped over his shoulder. If you didn’t know any better, you’d never in a thousand years peg him as the guy who’s left a pile of broken bodies from multiple weight classes in the wake of his seven-year, seventeen-fight win streak. Among the casualties are five (current and/or future) members of the illustriousUFC Hall of Fame. Those battle-tested titans of the arena were no match for “The Spider.” How could they be? The UFC middleweight champion posses otherworldly skills and ability, and an uncanny penchant for violence. Which reminds me; one of the greatest things about modern record keeping is the ability to relive history through streaming video. Check this out:
During Silva’s sensational career, he’s amassed a spectacular number of UFC records. And while a summary of his accomplishments fail to do his legacy any justice, they’re too remarkable not to mention. The 38-year-old Muay Thai savant owns records for the most knockdowns landed (17), longest winning streak (16), and longest title defense streak (10). The São Paulo native is the most accurate striker in the organization, landing 67.8% of the significant strikes he hurls his opponent’s way. What’s more is that 63% of his opponent’s significant strikes touch nothing but air. Did you know he’s tied with Joe Lauzon for the record for most post-fight bonuses (12) and he’s been awarded Knockout of the Night honors (6) more than any fighter to have ever stepped in the Octagon? His numbers are outstanding, but they only tell half the story.
When talking about a fighter’s greatness, you always recount the reasons he’ll be remembered for generations to come. For Silva, an unparalleled fighter with a unique combination of grace, speed, precision, power, artistry, and fundamental soundness in multiple disciplines, it’s difficult knowing just where to start. We could talk about his dominance, records, or any of the “Holy S***!” moments he’s given us, of which there are many. Instead, let’s talk about the perseverance displayed in his extraordinary comeback at UFC 117 against Chael Sonnen and the rivalry that lead to the UFC’s biggest rematch since Liddell vs. Ortiz 2.
During the summer of 2010, after months of listening to a previously unimaginable amount of trash talk, Anderson Silva was locked in steel cage with the man who insulted his credentials, country, and wife. If you expected to see Silva throw Sonnen a beating so bad his mother wouldn’t recognize him, you were sorely disappointed. Quite the opposite occurred at Oakland’s Oracle Arena that night. We all know the story by now. For four and a half rounds, Chael Sonnen treated the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt like a flank steak, pounding and hammering away until was good and tender. Mere mortals (with healthy, uninjured ribs) would’ve tossed in the towel between rounds, but not the champ. He was hell bent on victory…and he got it in the closing frame of the bout when he trapped the American in a triangle choke. Silva’s warrior spirit and unrelenting will to succeed not only shocked the fight world, but also gave way to arguably the most anticipated fight in the history of the promotion.
Two years later fans were treated to another epic showdown. At first, the middleweight tilt looked to be a rerun of their initial encounter, with Sonnen dominating Silva from bell to bell of the opening round. Unfortunately for the gangster from West Linn, Oregon, the champion capitalized on his missed spinning backfist in the second with a vicious ariel attack and never let off the gas. Anderson couldn’t have penned the storybook ending any better than what played out in Vegas that night. During his post-fight interview with Joe Rogan, Silva forgave Sonnen for his anti-Brazil rhetoric, going as far as to invite him to a barbeque, and then walked back to the locker room the undisputed baddest man on the planet.
They say heroes are remembered and legends never die. I hope that’s true. I hope all of our great-great grandchildren know of the intense feud between Silva and Sonnen and the last-second miracle that took place on the blood stained canvas in Oakland. By then, all sports records will have vacated their homes on Dell or Mac hard drives and moved to the cloud — a much cushier and convenient place to reside.
But what about Georges St. Pierre or Jon Jones, you ask? Have they not reigned supreme in their respective divisions, fought legendary battles, overcome adversity, and racked up their own impressive stats? Of course they have. But no matter what the numbers say in the end, Silva will still come out on top when it comes to mesmerizing performances and likeability.
A quick word association game helps confirm this. Someone says “GSP” and you immediately think “boring.” They say “Jon Jones” and you think “fake ass white boy spurious.” But when someone utters the name Anderson Silva, you immediately think of greatness. And not just individuals either — blue chip sponsors like Nike, Philips, and Burger King agree as they have all attached their sails to his ship. Fans, fighters, and media alike generally agree that “The Spider” is the pound-for-pound king. He’s doesn’t serve up lukewarm leftovers like the champ a weight class below nor does he polarize the crowd like the champ a weight class above. As if that weren’t enough, Silva is known for his charity work such as visiting sick kids in the hospital. In a sense, he’s everything a promoter, fan, or writer could ever ask for.
When DMX’s “Ain’t No Sunshine” hits the speakers in the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas this Saturday night, as Anderson Silva walks out for the main event at UFC 162 against undefeated Chris Weidman, the world will watch with great anticipation to see if history repeats itself or if it will be made anew. But what if I told you it doesn’t matter whose hand Herb Dean raises at the end of the night? Because it really doesn’t. Silva has nothing left to prove. In a sport where participants risk career-ending injuries most days of the week, the champion has been a force to be reckoned with for the better part of twenty years. Savor it, enjoy it, and most of all, appreciate it. No matter what happens after Silva and Weidman touch gloves in the middle of the Octagon, it won’t take away a modicum of legacy from Brazil’s Spiderman.
Before the ink on the contract dried, MMA fans began debating if Dan “Hendo” Henderson would become the greatest light heavyweight champion of all time should he beat Jon “Bones” Jones at UFC 151. While that is certainly entertaining water cooler fodder, I’m not so sure it’s a conversation we’re even allowed to have at this point. Remember the old Ric Flair maxim, “To be the man, you gotta beat the man.” Are you certain that Jones is the man? Before you get all up in arms about the perceived blasphemy, consider this: legacies are not born overnight. A legacy is built over years of dominance — after much blood, sweat and tears have been spilled. Although both Jones and Henderson were nominated for being the Best American Fighter in MMA History, I still wasn’t convinced the winner of the fight would automatically reach GOAT status. That’s where Rex comes in. Join us, won’t you, as we banter back and forth over a couple of cold ones…
Alright Rex, before we go any further let’s settle this one small thing: Who is the current holder of the “Greatest Light Heavyweight Champ of All Time?”
RX: Well, technically speaking, Dan Henderson has only held a light-heavyweight championship once: in Strikeforce, for like five minutes before he said “Deuce, bitches” and bulked up to heavyweight. While I think we all agree that a Strikeforce title doesn’t count because LOLOL, the fact remains that Hendo is making a strong argument for true GOAT status, not just as a light heavy, but as a fighter, period.
JM: For me, it’s gotta be Chuck Liddell. His record speaks for itself, but we’ll get to that in a minute. When you think of UFC, you almost immediately think of Liddell. Why do you suppose that is? I’ll tell you — it’s because he was the sport’s first crossover star. The Hall of Famer and former light heavyweight champion “wrote” a best-selling autobiography, made numerous television and movie cameos, and was the first UFC fighter to appear on the cover of ESPN the Magazine. When I think of greatness, I think big-picture, in and out of the Octagon.
Before the ink on the contract dried, MMA fans began debating if Dan “Hendo” Henderson would become the greatest light heavyweight champion of all time should he beat Jon “Bones” Jones at UFC 151. While that is certainly entertaining water cooler fodder, I’m not so sure it’s a conversation we’re even allowed to have at this point. Remember the old Ric Flair maxim, “To be the man, you gotta beat the man.” Are you certain that Jones is the man? Before you get all up in arms about the perceived blasphemy, consider this: legacies are not born overnight. A legacy is built over years of dominance — after much blood, sweat and tears have been spilled. Although both Jones and Henderson were nominated for being the Best American Fighter in MMA History, I still wasn’t convinced the winner of the fight would automatically reach GOAT status. That’s where Rex comes in. Join us, won’t you, as we banter back and forth over a couple of cold ones…
Alright Rex, before we go any further let’s settle this one small thing: Who is the current holder of the “Greatest Light Heavyweight Champ of All Time?”
RX: Well, technically speaking, Dan Henderson has only held a light-heavyweight championship once: in Strikeforce, for like five minutes before he said “Deuce, bitches” and bulked up to heavyweight. While I think we all agree that a Strikeforce title doesn’t count because LOLOL, the fact remains that Hendo is making a strong argument for true GOAT status, not just as a light heavy, but as a fighter, period.
JM: For me, it’s gotta be Chuck Liddell. His record speaks for itself, but we’ll get to that in a minute. When you think of UFC, you almost immediately think of Liddell. Why do you suppose that is? I’ll tell you — it’s because he was the sport’s first crossover star. The Hall of Famer and former light heavyweight champion “wrote” a best-selling autobiography, made numerous television and movie cameos, and was the first UFC fighter to appear on the cover of ESPN the Magazine. When I think of greatness, I think big-picture, in and out of the Octagon.
Holding the record for the most wins in the Light heavyweight division at 18, “The Iceman” is, and will be for a long time, the Greatest of All Time. Compiling two separate seven-fight win streaks, the mohawked knockout artist was the dominant force to be reckoned with for nearly a decade. During his prime, Liddell held the gold for over two years, leaving a pile of unconscious bodies in his wake. I really wish I still had a copy of his opponent’s contracts from back in the day. Every brave soul who was crazy enough to sign on the dotted line was issued a toe tag and a free consultation with an attorney to set up a Last Will and Testament. (I made that last part up.) You see, Chuck Liddell is one BAMF and if you don’t think he’s the GOAT you should GTFO while I SMDH in utter disappointment.
RX: Oh, there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin ’bout MMA, a white man got to pull Chuck Liddell out they ass. That’s their one! That’s their one! Chuck Liddell! Chuck Liddell! Let me tell you something, once and for all — Chuck Liddell was good; but compared to Quinton Jackson, Chuck Liddell ain’t shit!
Seriously, though — Chuck Liddell made his debut at UFC 17, where he decisioned … some guy, it doesn’t matter. You know who else was at UFC 17? Dan Henderson. Hendo won the UFC’s one-night, four man middleweight tournament that night. Chuck’s last fight, a KO loss to Rich Franklin, was in June 2010. Hendo would win Strikeforce gold that December. He bracketed Liddell’s career, and he’s still a badass.
Oh, PLUS he went to the Olympics in Barcelona and Atlanta, where he (presumably) racked up tons of Olympic cooch. Hold on, I just talked myself into — I need to add ‘Hang with Hendo’ to my bucket list. Hendo beats Liddell all day, brother man.
JM: With or without TRT?
Do you really have beat the man to be the man?
RX: You know, I ran into Arn Anderson once, and I said “Arn, you hang out with Ric Flair, just between me and you, how old is Ric Flair?” You know what Arn told me, he said “Hey, Ric Flair is 137 years old.” A hundred and thirty-seven years old!
JM: In this case, certainly not. Chuck’s a shell of his former self and is retired to boot. Now, if we were talking about the greatest middleweight of all time, then yeah, beating Anderson Silva would be a prerequisite for the GOAT conversation. Because Henderson can’t actually fight Liddell, we can only speculate — a dangerous charge. That being said, “Hendo” can make his claim for the coveted title starting with a win over Jon Jones at UFC 151.
Either way, many people will still see it differently. At UFC 151, current champ Jon Jones will fight Dan Henderson and the winner will become immortalized. However, immortality doesn’t equate with being the greatest of all time. (Think Ken Shamrock) If Dan Henderson wins, does that make him the absolute greatest man to ever wear the light heavyweight strap?
RX: Oh yeah, topic. I agree that you don’t have to beat the man to be the man, because the whole game of pinning the tail on the GOAT is mostly a discussion to spill ink over. The whole point is arguing about it, since obviously we’ll never see the true greats all fight one another.
JM: I concur with Rex. I’ve got all the respect in the world for the man who shut Bisping’s loud mouth. He’s one of the most decorated mixed martial artists the sport has ever seen, and is sure to find his place in the UFC Hall of Fame according to Dana White. All things considered, Henderson’s success has been aided by TRT, Chuck’s was not. End of story.
RX: If you’re looking for Hendo’s unfair advantage, I say it’s less about his TRT and more about his Leno chin.
Okay, let’s say Dan does win on September 1st. He fights a few more fights before going out to pasture. What then, must Jon Jones do to [reclaim/become] the LHW GOAT label?
RX: What? If a prime Jones loses to Hendo — yes, a legend, but a legend at the tail end of his meteoric career — I think he’s out of the conversation. Conversely, Hendo puts himself into the conversation with a win. But yeah, Jones? Jones would have to smoke everybody forever for people to let him live that one down.
JM: Jones needs to continue his dominance for another five years. That’s not to say he has to remain unbeaten. (Don’t even go there. That was a BS call and you know it!) He’s on the right track for sure, he just needs to keep it going. Holding the title that was so darn slippery to a handful of his predecessors is a testament to his increasing greatness. I don’t doubt that he will eventually earn the ‘Greatest of All Time’ crown as he becomes the modern day Chuck Liddell — the fearsome fighter who transcends MMA and crosses over into the mainstream, like for instance, his deal with Nike.
Well, there you have it. To borrow a line from your favorite writer here at CP, “What say you, Potato Nation?”
