CagePotato Open Discussion: How Can we Change the Face of MMA Scoring?


(I’ll stop doing it when you stop laughing.) 

Lets face it, Potato Nation, the current face of MMA judging is nearly as bad as it’s original state of refereeing. And although some of the fault can be attributed to the judges themselves, there is no denying that the 10-point must system upon which nearly all of mixed martial arts competition is judged upon is in dire need of a change. How many decision’s have left us scratching our heads in this year alone? In fact, the very first fight card of the year, which took place on New Year’s Day mind you, ended in the controversial draw between Frankie Edgar and Gray Maynard. You can’t make this stuff up.

It’s easy to sit back and take pot shots at those in the spotlight, and let’s be honest, it’s kind of what we’re known for. But not today. Today we move from “identifying the problem” to “finding the solution” so that maybe in the future we can say we made even the smallest of differences in the world. (Take that, Wall Street protesters.)


(I’ll stop doing it when you stop laughing.) 

Lets face it, Potato Nation, the current face of MMA judging is nearly as bad as it’s original state of refereeing. And although some of the fault can be attributed to the judges themselves, there is no denying that the 10-point must system upon which nearly all of mixed martial arts competition is judged upon is in dire need of a change. How many decision’s have left us scratching our heads in this year alone? In fact, the very first fight card of the year, which took place on New Year’s Day mind you, ended in the controversial draw between Frankie Edgar and Gray Maynard. You can’t make this stuff up.

It’s easy to sit back and take pot shots at those in the spotlight, and let’s be honest, it’s kind of what we’re known for. But not today. Today we move from “identifying the problem” to “finding the solution” so that maybe in the future we can say we made even the smallest of differences in the world. (Take that, Wall Street protesters.)

So after extensive research and idea-ball tossing, we have come up with a few options to help solve the judging riddle. If you think any of these ideas are better than the current system, you have a better option, or we should just leave well enough alone, be sure to let us know in the comment section, and vote in the new poll either here or on our homepage.

Option #1 – Pride Rules
Though Pride Fighting Championships was tainted by fixed fights and freak shows during its era, the scoring system upon which it was based certainly nullified most of the “lay-n-pray” strategy that the 10-point must system tends to reward. In the event of a decision, the three judges would decide the winner based on: effort made to finish the fight by KO/sub, damage given to the opponent, standing combinations and ground control, aggressiveness and weight differential. By adding the incentive to finish the fight and damage to the criteria, it emphasizes the notion put forth by the Fertitas that guys who WAR!!! are the ones we want to see fighting.

Option #2 – The Fermat Scale
Taking it’s name from French mathematician Pierre de Fermat, this system is loosely based on the probability scale that Fermat’s contributions helped create. There are 5 distinct categories; Effective Strikes Landed/Damage, Takedowns Completed, Submission Attempts, Knockdowns, and Octagon Control/Aggression. The winner in the judge’s eyes of each category receives a score of 1, the loser, 0. Now, this is not to say that there cannot be a tie in a couple of these categories. For instance, if both fighters knocked the other down once, or twice for that matter, the score would be 1-1 for that category. But by definitively deciding on categories such as Octagon Control and Effective Strikes Landed, it provides a larger window to decide upon an actual winner rather than a single point per round. Rounds are not decided upon as a whole or as a combination of these techniques, but rather by a specific breakdown of how each technique was used and to what success. It emphaizes the “mixed” in “mixed martial arts” essentially.

Option #3 – Queensbury/Boxing Style Rules 
This would basically be the same as the current 10-point must system, but with Queensbury rules, the knockdown would become as rewarded in MMA as it is in boxing. Each time a fighter is knocked down, he/she would lose a point. One knockdown would result in a 10-8, and so on. A takedown would not merit an automatic point reduction, but would still factor in to the overall score of the round. The significance of the knockdown would not only allow definitive evidence for justifying a 10-8 round and so on, but help the judges overcome the seemingly intense fear they have of labeling a round 10-8 in the first place. By these rules, Gray Maynard would’ve received much more credit for his first round dismantling of Edgar in their first match up. The tricky part here is, how do you effectively judge what a clear knockdown is in mixed martial arts? That is a tough question to answer, but that’s why we’ve made this a discussion.

Option #4 – Sakuraba/Gracie Rules
This one is simple. Fight until one of you gives up or is finished. Pay-per-views would surely suffer, but that’s just the cost of closure.

Option #5 – Stick With the 10-Point Must System

‘Nuff said.

So, what say you, Potato Nation? How can we fix this mess?

-Danga

MFC 31 Results: Jimmo Wins 16th Straight, Judges Test Half Point Scoring


Jimmo dominates the pre-fight staredown. We’re talking 10-7.5 dominance.

Sometimes an idea comes along that’s so stupid that society adopts it just out of curiosity. YAMMA Pit Fighting, Canned bacon, XARM– things that supposedly solve a problem that someone is having somewhere, but are essentially useless to everyone else. So when Doc Hamilton introduced his half-point scoring system after Machida’s controversial decision over Shogun Rua at UFC 104, which essentially said that judges should score close rounds 10-9.5 instead of 10-9, it was just a matter of time before someone said “Hey, maybe he’s right about this whole judges not working with fractions thing”. If last night’s MFC 31 in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada , which utilized the half-point scoring system that Doc Hamilton proposed would improve MMA judging, taught us anything it was that half-point scoring is just as flawed as whole point scoring.

Case in point: Last night’s main event saw a controversial unanimous decision victory awarded to former Cage Potato guest blogger/current Maximum Fighting Championship light heavyweight champion Ryan Jimmo over Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou. Overall, the fight barely had more action than the weigh-in, as neither fighter seemed eager to engage with- yet alone finish- his opponent. However, Jimmo was clearly the aggressor in the championship rounds, and ended up taking the fight by scores of 49-48.5 (x2) and 49-48. The fight marks Jimmo’s sixteenth straight victory.


Jimmo dominates the pre-fight staredown. We’re talking 10-7.5 dominance.

Sometimes an idea comes along that’s so stupid that society adopts it just out of curiosity. YAMMA Pit Fighting, Canned bacon, XARM– things that supposedly solve a problem that someone is having somewhere, but are essentially useless to everyone else. So when Doc Hamilton introduced his half-point scoring system after Machida’s controversial decision over Shogun Rua at UFC 104, which essentially said that judges should score close rounds 10-9.5 instead of 10-9,  it was just a matter of time before someone said “Hey, maybe he’s right about this whole judges not working with fractions thing”. If last night’s MFC 31 in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada , which utilized the half-point scoring system that Doc Hamilton proposed would improve MMA judging, taught us anything it was that half-point scoring is just as flawed as whole point scoring.

Case in point: Last night’s main event saw a controversial unanimous decision victory awarded to former Cage Potato guest blogger/current Maximum Fighting Championship light heavyweight champion Ryan Jimmo over Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou. Overall, the fight barely had more action than the weigh-in, as neither fighter seemed eager to engage with- yet alone finish- his opponent. However, Jimmo was clearly the aggressor in the championship rounds, and ended up taking the fight by scores of 49-48.5 (x2) and 49-48. The fight marks Jimmo’s sixteenth straight victory.

Some people who have watched the fight believe that Sokoudjou was robbed, as he pushed the pace in the first three rounds (if we’re using the term as liberally as possibly) and landed the only significant blow of the entire fight: A knee to Jimmo’s forehead in the second round that opened up a cut on the champion. Likewise, some people who have watched the fight believe that Jimmo won two rounds, Sokoudjou won two rounds and the first round could have gone either way. But you know what nobody is saying? Nobody is saying “The half-point system totally worked in preventing a controversial decision”, because it didn’t.

Just like we said when Doc Hamilton first introduced the idea, forcing a “winner” for a round that is too close to call is inherently a bad idea, regardless of whether the winner wins by a whole point or a half point. Just like we said, people are still questioning whether or not the judges chose the right winner of each round, even though the round winner only won by half of a point. That’s because the problem isn’t so much how many points the winner is winning by as it is that a winner in a round that was too close to call is being declared in the first place.

Full results, courtesy of MMAMania:

Ryan Jimmo def. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou via unanimous decision
Kajan Johnson def. Richie Whitson via submission (rear-naked choke) at 3:51 of round one
Adam Lynn def. Curtis Demarce via knockout (elbow) at 1:38 of round one
Mukai Maromo def. Sabah Fadai via unanimous decision
Terry Martin def. Allen Hope 2:13 of round one via technical knockout (strikes)
Cody Krahn def. Ryan Chiappe via submission (guillotine choke) at 3:45 of round one

Jeremy Horn and Rich Clementi Formally Protest Decision Losses at Superior Challenge 7

(Celementi’s post fight interview with Sweden’s answer to Ariel Helwani)

I can think of a few good reasons that last weekend’s Superior Challenge 7 card may have slipped of our radar. With the juggernaut that was UFC 129 dominating the MMA landscape at the time, former UFC fighters vying for mostly-irrelevant titles in a far away land just didn’t seem to matter too much. Fast forward one week and things get slightly more interesting.

As this event marked the first time that the Unified Rules would govern MMA bouts in Sweden, one might have expected a smooth night fights set to the harmonic backdrop of “The Sign”. However, following decision losses in their respective title bouts, Jeremy Horn and Rich Clementi have officially filed protests with the Swedish Mixed Martial Arts Federation to have the results of those matches overturned.

(Celementi’s post fight interview with Sweden’s answer to Ariel Helwani)

I can think of a few good reasons that last weekend’s Superior Challenge 7 card may have slipped of our radar. With the juggernaut that was UFC 129 dominating the MMA landscape at the time, former UFC fighters vying for mostly-irrelevant titles in a far away land just didn’t seem to matter too much. Fast forward one week and things get slightly more interesting.

As this event marked the first time that the Unified Rules would govern MMA bouts in Sweden, one might have expected a smooth night fights set to the harmonic backdrop of “The Sign”. However, following decision losses in their respective title bouts, Jeremy Horn and Rich Clementi have officially filed protests with the Swedish Mixed Martial Arts Federation to have the results of those matches overturned.

One of MMA’s most seasoned veterans, Horn squared off against fellow former UFC title challenger Thales Leites for the vacant Superior Challenge Middleweight Championship. With neither man able to put away his opponent, the fight was turned over to the judges who awarded the victory to Leites. While this bout has been described as very close, neither reports on Sherdog.com nor Swedish MMA site Fighter Magazine (Google Translate, bitches) list possible grounds for Horn’s appeal. If Horn merely has a difference of opinion as to who won the fight, he won’t really have a compelling case to bring before the Federation. Now Clementi, on the other hand, just might.

The battle between UFC veteran Rich Clementi and Swedish fighter Reza Madadi to become Superior Challenge’s first Lightweight Champion was even closer, so much so that ringside judges declared the fight a draw. What’s odd is that this fight—unlike Horn vs. Leites–was not one of the three fights to be contested under Unified Rules. This meant that the Swedish athletic commission still enforced their “no draws allowed” policy for championship fights. So after rendering their draw verdict, the three ringside judges—including Madadi training partner Bobby Rehman—were forced to give one fighter the nod in a fight they felt was even. Anyone care to hazard a guess as to whom Rehman voted for?

In Madadi’s defense, and in Rehman’s, it was a fight too close to call and all three judges ruled him the victor. That being said, this situation should never have been allowed due to the obvious bias created when teammates and friends judge one another. George Sallfeldt, the new chairman of the Swedish Mixed Martial Arts Federation, has promised to take a closer look at the relationships between judges and fighters and to conduct an investigation into the matter. The commission will rule on the protests on May 16th. If only someone had warned of this scenario, the whole ordeal could have been avoided.

Stats Confirm That Phan/Garcia Decision Was Indeed Bullshit

(Apparently, leaving your face open for repeated blows means you’re "dictating the action." Photo courtesy of UFC.com)
Well, another Leonard Garcia fight is in the books, which means it’s time to ask the judges, once again: Are you guy…

Leonard Garcia Nam Phan TUF 12 Finale UFC Ultimate Fighter
(Apparently, leaving your face open for repeated blows means you’re "dictating the action." Photo courtesy of UFC.com)

Well, another Leonard Garcia fight is in the books, which means it’s time to ask the judges, once again: Are you guys totally blind, or just legally blind, so that, you know, you can make out shapes and degrees of light, that kind of thing?  

Garcia’s split-decision victory over Nam Phan at Saturday’s TUF 12 Finale elicited immediate chants of "Bullshit!" from the Las Vegas fans, as well as a lengthy anti-NSAC rant from Joe Rogan. Did the judges see something we didn’t? Am I just biased by the fact that Phan is a likable underdog, and Garcia’s striking is an aesthetic nightmare that I can’t stand watching?

Well, no, as it turns out. According to FightMetric’s report on Phan/Garcia, the match should have been scored a 30-27 for Phan based solely on statistical effectiveness. Phan landed more "significant strikes" in every round, with only the first round being close (33-30 significant strikes in Phan’s favor). The second round was an obvious runaway for Phan (34-13 in the s.s. department, with a brief knockdown via side-kick) and the third was also a clear win for Phan (35-21). The only advantage Garcia had was his two takedowns (one apiece in rounds 2 and 3), neither of which led to any real damage.

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Even More ‘Diaz vs. Noons II’ Aftermath Notes: Scoring Corrections, the Diaz/Mayhem Water Bottle Incident

(Props: CompuStrike via BloodyElbow. Click for larger version.)
Just because there were no major screw-ups during Saturday’s Strikeforce show, doesn’t mean they didn’t get a couple of minor details wrong. Case in point: the CompuStrike numbers that c…

Nick Diaz KJ Noons Strikeforce CompuStrike
(Props: CompuStrike via BloodyElbow. Click for larger version.)

Just because there were no major screw-ups during Saturday’s Strikeforce show, doesn’t mean they didn’t get a couple of minor details wrong. Case in point: the CompuStrike numbers that came back after the Diaz vs. Noons main event. Was anybody else shocked to learn that KJ Noons actually outstruck Nick Diaz 310-194, and landed a full 51% of his strikes? It seemed to us that Diaz was controlling the standup exchanges pretty clearly. As it turns out, CompuStrike incorrectly reported the strike totals from the fight, due to a "glitch" in their system; the real totals are above. There, now you can rest easily knowing that the decision was fair and your eyes did not deceive you.

Now, moving onto judging errors…

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No Surprise Here: Evan Dunham is Taking His Screwjob Loss Like a Total Champ

(Two entirely appropriate responses to the judges’ verdict. PicProps: Our Man J-Dawg)
Besides an affinity for horrifying Oregon Ducks gear, there isn’t much to dislike about Evan Dunham. In fact, in the wake of UFC 119 you could say Dunham has po…


(Two entirely appropriate responses to the judges’ verdict. PicProps: Our Man J-Dawg)

Besides an affinity for horrifying Oregon Ducks gear, there isn’t much to dislike about Evan Dunham. In fact, in the wake of UFC 119 you could say Dunham has positioned himself as sort of an “Anti-Frank Mir” in MMA circles, emerging from his split decision loss to Sean Sherk looking like a winner, while the former UFC heavyweight champion emerged from his KO win looking like a loser. Given the near-unanimous public sentiment that Dunham got the “No Vaseline” treatment at 119, it will be interesting to see if the UFC simply ignores the amazing incompetence of the ringside officials on Saturday night and keeps the kid full-speed-ahead on his rise to a title shot.

Signs point to yes, as the always subtle UFC President took to his Twitter immediately after the official verdict to announce Dunham had been “robbed!” Meanwhile, Dunham himself — if his recent postfight with MMA Junkie is any indication — seems to be taking a far pluckier approach to his first professional loss.

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